New recordings give a rare glimpse into police department investigations of a shooting by officers, and show why discipline in such cases is rare.
On Thursday, a disciplinary trial resumes for two NYPD officers accused of misconduct in the death of Kawaski Trawick. One officer is accused of needlessly shooting Trawick in his own home in the Bronx in 2019, and both are accused of letting him die without rendering any aid. The NYPD interviewed the officers involved and later found they had not violated NYPD policy.
"Morning Edition" host Michael Hill spoke to freelance journalist Mike Hayes and ProPublica Editor-at-Large Eric Umansky, who published a story on Thursday about rare recordings of internal police interviews in the case that were obtained by Hayes. Their reporting found that investigators never asked the critical questions. Here is a transcript of their interview with Hill:
Michael Hill: Mike, Eric, good morning and welcome to "Morning Edition." Eric, would you remind us what happened in this case?
Eric Umansky: Sure. So almost exactly four years ago, officers Brendan Thompson and Herbert Davis arrived at a young man's apartment, named Kawaski Trawick. He had called 911 after locking himself out. As it turns out, firefighters had also come and let him back into his apartment.
So the two officers, Thompson and Davis, found Trawick in his own apartment, and he was holding a bread knife and a stick. He asked them why they were there. And 112 seconds later, officer Thompson, who was white and less experienced, had shot Trawick despite his partner, officer Davis, who's Black and more experienced, repeatedly, repeatedly telling him not to.
Mike, what did you notice about these officer interviews as you listened to them?
Mike Hayes: So, thanks to Eric's reporting for ProPublica, and the release of the video in this case, we were able to listen to these interviews with 2020 hindsight of what Davis and Thompson did during the incident. And the biggest thing that stood out when listening to these interviews was what investigators didn't ask Thompson and Davis. Most notably, neither officer was asked about Davis' numerous attempts to stop Thompson from tasing and firing his gun at Trawick. Instead, as investigators were going through the course of events at the apartment that night, they asked the officers if there was any conversation between them and they said no.
And we know based on the video that was not true, that in fact the two officers were conversing with each other. Specifically Davis was trying to stop his partner from using lethal force.
Let's hear some of the tape. Now you say this is Deputy Chief Kevin Maloney, questioning Davis, the officer who tried to stop his partner from shooting.
(TAPE) Kevin Maloney: Any conversation between you and your partner at this point? No, we were, I don't think we were talking about anything. We were talking about just … mainly we were focusing on him. We didn't want to really talk about anything. We were focusing on him.
The officers knew Trawick was in crisis, but they didn't follow protocols and then investigators never asked about the critical questions. OK. Here's an investigator interviewing Thompson:
(TAPE) Investigator: Did you make any assessment of his condition? Does he appear intoxicated or emotionally disturbed?
Thompson: I would say yes. I mean, he might have been on something, I don't know what, but he's definitely, I would say emotionally disturbed.
OK Eric, what procedures should these officers have followed?
So NYPD policy around handling people in crisis is quite clear. Officers are trained to de-escalate, to try to calm down people, and then if that doesn't work, they are instructed to isolate and contain. In this case, that would've meant literally closing the door to Trawick’s apartment and then calling for help, calling for specially trained units. The two officers didn't do any of that, and then investigators never explored any of that either.
Eric, you've done a lot of reporting on police misconduct. What can we learn about the NYPD's disciplinary process from these recordings?
So to be blunt here and listening to these recordings and reading the materials, my God, what you can see here is the blue wall of silence being built. The officers don't tell the truth about what happened, and investigators had access to footage to know that that was the case and they never explored it.
Instead, by the way, at one point officers — the investigators and these interviews last for 30 minutes total each — one time each. Instead, they asked about the weather.
Mike, the NYPD determined that the officers did not violate policy, and the DA's office declined to bring criminal charges. What's at stake in this police watchdog agency trial that resumes today?
So the stakes here are incredibly high because based on the charges that the CCRB — the watchdog agency — have brought in this case, they, as the prosecutors here, are asking the NYPD to fire these officers, the ultimate, most serious penalty that can be handed down in a disciplinary trial. It's important to note that if either officer is found guilty by the department judge hearing the case, and she recommends they be fired or face any sort of penalty, the ultimate decision will be made by the police commissioner who has the final say on all disciplinary matters at the NYPD. She can follow the judge's recommendation, whatever that might be, or reach her own conclusion, including forgoing any discipline at all. So there's a variable of outcomes here, which I imagine quite obviously creates a tremendous amount of tension for both the officers involved and the family of Kawaski Trawick, who has made it clear that they want these officers to be fired from the force.
